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Neighborhood Electric Vehicles (NEVs)

Calling Out Green Fearmongering

By Nick Hodge
Wednesday, December 16th, 2009

John Stossel has become the latest fearmonger at Fox News.

His journalistic debut there focused on "Free Golf Carts." But in the face of Fox News' tradition of being "Fair and Balanced," the vehicles in question actually turn out to be neither free nor golf carts.

Let's poke John's report to see what hackneyed tactics he's using to bash the government and progressive energy ideas that would actually help most of his ill-informed viewers.

Stossel Trades Lies for Ratings

Stossel is now the newest member of the Fox News team, having sold out after a long run with ABC's 20/20. Apparently, viewers of Fox more readily accept steadfast resistance to progress passed off as news.

At any rate, his big inaugural piece at the network focused on government (he refers to them as "venal cretins" — but that's a news term, right?) tax credits for neighborhood electric vehicles (NEVs).

Of course, it wasn't an in-depth, detailed report on the pros and cons of incenting people to buy electric vehicles. Instead, his report was more a personal tea party against "free golf carts."

Here's the first line of Stossel's take on the matter: "After money from the "stimulus" bill was spent on destroying perfectly good cars and building an Airport for Nobody, the WSJ reports that government has found an even more ridiculous way to spend your money: free golf carts."

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Do you see what he does there? Quotations around the word "stimulus" serve to dismiss the effort that many economists now say helped pull us out of the Great Recession.

And regarding his line about "destroying perfectly good cars: "those cars weren't "perfectly good," were they?

They had been traded in for more efficient models, and their destruction ensured the tax credit wasn't for naught. Oh yeah, and the automakers hailed that idea as great for business.

Then there's the "more ridiculous way to spend your money" line.

Where were these headlines when the Minerals Management Service was doling out billion-dollar land leases to oil companies that had furnished them with cocaine and sex under the Bush administration?

That's a ridiculous way to spend money, not offering tax breaks for the adoption of clean vehicles.

But this is the stuff that's broadcast as news every single day.

All Headline, No Substance

Of course, Stossel's piece was all for shock value. He was even quoted as saying, "It's my first show on Fox Business, and I had to go big."

You don't "go big" when you're a journalist. You report the news.

But we are talking about the same news organization that ran a 12-page pictorial last week featuring "Celebrities Who Go Bra-Free."

(By the way, my colleague Chris Nelder did a good job explaining why such large herds of people chew this cud every single day in last Friday's Energy & Capital.)

What I'm getting at here is that Stossel's diatribe was all about the headline, so some Joe Shmoe could tell a few buddies about big gummit's latest crazy idea. Pure propaganda in the form of a headline.

All Stossel need do is close the report with some subjective vitriol about how stupid this idea is and the herd is hooked. He went with a generic Foxism, saying the "government shouldn't be in the business of taking money and giving it back. That just gives the venal cretins more power over our lives."

He completely disregards any benefits the NEVs and the associated tax breaks have to offer.

Let's see what happens when a journalist with more than a speck of integrity reports on the same story...

The Un-Fox Version of NEVs

I remember reading an article in Wired back in September that showed the not-so-scary side of NEVs. Listen to how terrible this sounds:

It's a brutally hot morning here at the Villages, one of the biggest retirement communities on the planet. But the saunalike central Florida weather doesn't slow down the 77,000 seniors who call this place home.

On the nine softball fields around the development, smack-talking eightysomethings try to leg out a base hit. Graceful swimmers slice through the water in glittering pools. Near the Bait Shop bar in one of the immaculate town squares, line dancers shimmy in unison.

Villagers play hard. And they drive... well, they drive kinda slow. Because the ride of choice at the Villages isn't a Lincoln or a Cadillac.

You guessed it... it's a neighborhood electric vehicle. And the seniors in the community love them.

Just in this one community — there are many more in Florida and elsewhere — there are 87 miles of trails that can only be traveled in an NEV. The trails even take residents right to the doorstep of major chains like Target, Staples, Starbucks, and Wal-Mart.

The entire community is centered around the NEVs. And they help not only to gives hundreds of thousands of seniors a happy and active retirement, but also to perpetuate the American dichotomy of consumerism and community.

It's no wonder the use of NEVs — and the amount of communities centered around them — are on the rise.

Oh, and by the way, Wired reports that "The US government's recent stimulus package offers NEV buyers a $2,500 tax credit (a third to half the cost of the vehicle)."

Stossel's "Free Golf Carts" are based on dealership incentive schemes.

Wired takes a different approach to the conclusion than Stossel's "venal cretins" route:

The Villages embodies what environmentalists have been waiting decades for - a glossy future powered by electric vehicles.

But the lesson of the Villages isn't just about the vehicles we're driving-it's about where we're driving them. The future of transportation should be focused on the quick jaunts that make up most of our day-to-day driving.

The Villages is for people who've lived long enough to know that what they want now is a warm breeze in a quiet, open ride-going fast enough to hit both the golf course and the Walmart in the same afternoon but slow enough to take in the scenery along the way.

As my octogenarian opponent deftly whacks the pickleball past my reach, I look up to catch a glimpse of the future on the horizon. It's a gray-haired guy with a backward cap, cruising in his cart past a brand-new community center. A golden retriever stands on the passenger seat, tail wagging, and an American flag is displayed proudly right where the gas tank should be.

You can decide for yourself by reading Stossel's article here and the Wired piece here.

But it shouldn't be hard to conclude that a tax break for buying a vehicle with no emissions, one that is mostly used by seniors, and one that helps create a sense of community while fostering American consumerism isn't a bad idea.

The green future is here. You can, like Stossel, whine and stomp your feet. Or you can embrace it, leverage it to save money on your utility and transportation bills, encourage it to create a prosperous and energy-secure America, and perhaps maybe even make a little profit for yourself.

Doing the latter is the opposite of venal. It's doing the right things for the right reasons.

Call it like you see it,

Nick Hodge

Nick


Editor's Note: From solar and wind to geothermal and biofuels, Green Chip readers want to know which renewable energy resource will take over where fossil fuels leave off. The answer is...all of the above!

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Comments:

Comment by Page Blakemore on 2009-12-16
You greenies are so sensitive about any criticism it makes me very suspiicious of your veracity.
Comment by David on 2009-12-16
Where is your objectivity. Did you see how many trucks were traded in on the cash for clunkers and what were they traded for? Apparently you believe that this was a great success? Funny that giving away free money was so successful they had to increase the amount of money allocated to it by 200%. Are you really objective?
Comment by martin shook on 2009-12-16
So you are Green at any cost to the economy? Argue on the merits of the issue, don't push your own opinions and above all don't bash other reporters for their views.

IMHO tax credits are a very inefficient way to create jobs. Lower tax rates and less regulation will produce more jobs and more GDP growth.

If the gov't wants to subsidize and encourage green industries, it should do so by funding R&D, not by using tax credits to support immature and inefficient technologies.
Comment by Timothy Coomer on 2009-12-16
Congratulations Nick! Apparently you've been hired by the Obama Adminstration. Stay out of politics and stop bashing Fox! Stossel probably missed some stuff but his point is government is trying to guide it's agenda through incentives.

How about you investigate GE and their ties to Obama? GE is in bed with White House. Stay out of politics! Give your readers stock advice pertaining to energy...that's what you are good at doing. Thanks.
Comment by Barry Fitzgerald on 2009-12-16
I have seen this guy comment before on other stations and was impressed that he could string tow lies together without the slightest expression change on his face. There doesn't seem to be a light on in that house....who could expect more from Faux News?
Comment by Joseph Myers on 2009-12-16
How Stossel lasted on ABC for so long was a miracle -- demonstrating that the "entertainment" divisions of the major media run the news shows. But Stossel is in his true home now -- he, like Beck, Limbaugh, and others can be "news clowns" -- and entertain the choir.
Comment by Wayne Johnson on 2009-12-16
Look, the reason why Fox News is so outrageously popular is that it DOES dare to report the news not act like Socialist government controlled parrots. As an ashamed democrat I had my wake up call when the truth came out about the real intent of the Obama Communist regime. No country is immune to destruction not even ours. I appreciate Fox News very much at least SO FAR it is not a leftist regurgitation machine. Get Real.
Comment by R on 2009-12-16
Half the harm that is done in this world
Is due to people who want to feel important
They don’t mean to do harm
But the harm does not interest them.
Or they do not see it, or they justify it
Because they are absorbed in the endless struggle
To think well of themselves.
T. S. Eliot
Comment by Greenie on 2009-12-16
Is it possible to award negative stars? This is about the least intelligent review I have seen. Stossel's piece was opinion, not intended to be objective journalism. Using my tax dollars to buy golf carts for seniors rich enough to afford the Villages is offensive. I prefer my Suburban for driving on the highway.
Comment by Kenneth Hayes on 2009-12-16
I watched Fox news for years and finally figured out that they are selling a short term business out look and screw the public. I stopped watching them the first of year when they started running down the President for trying to clean up the corrupt banks and Wall Street. Great artical- Keep them coming !!!
Comment by Bill H on 2009-12-16
There are emissions caused by the power company, battery makers, steel manufacturers, tire companies etc..
All to make the electric cart go forward. Here's a clue if you want the Government to support this kind of huey - give them your money not mine.
Comment by Lee E Fisher on 2009-12-16
I like Fox News.........I'd like to see our government adhere more closely to the constitution.
Soon the image for the next election should resemble a large broom.....Many should be swept out of office, almost anyone could do as well as what we have now!!
Comment by Michael Cunningham on 2009-12-16
I have to say this is my favorite in this piece.

"You don't "go big" when you're a journalist. You report the news."

Report the news? How long has the left sided news been doing the same and I wonder if you have been as vocal about that. If not, then you are worse than Stossel.

The comment about you greenies not being able to take criticism is too accurate. It's like this "your opinion is fine as long as it agrees with mine."
Comment by MB on 2009-12-16
The fact is a vast majority of the clunkers probably were perfectly good cars for the aftermarket. My F150 is a LEV. (low emission vehicle) The cars today are spewing 95% less emissions than those of 20 years ago. 20 years down the road we will be bailing out the electric car companies because they relied too much on government subsidies and mandates to stay in business. Get ready it will come.
Comment by Dick Singsank on 2009-12-16
You and Al Gore are far more likely to be the liars than John Stossel.
Comment by Russ on 2009-12-16
Stossel is one of the few voices of common sense in the media today.

I have always liked his Libertarian take on the issues.

I will gladly take Stossel over any of the Kool-Aid drinking liberals at CNN any day of the week.
Comment by MB on 2009-12-16
The fact is a vast majority of the clunkers probably were perfectly good cars for the aftermarket. My F150 is a LEV. (low emission vehicle) The cars today are spewing 95% less emissions than those of 20 years ago. 20 years down the road we will be bailing out the electric car companies because they relied too much on government subsidies and mandates to stay in business. Get ready it will come.
Comment by Tony Fortwengler on 2009-12-16
Stossel is one of the few reporters to report on the silliness of government give-a-ways. I love GREEN but quit subsidizing it with $2,500 credits for NEVs or any other EV
Comment by brian on 2009-12-16
You miss the whole point of the article, which is that through inefficient use of govt subsidies, the entire golf cart can be acquired for free. We are all for the proper use of tax incentives to promote green energy and reduce our dependance on foreign oil.....the piece by Stossel was right on...yours was jaded by your agenda. You should be on the same page as Stossel, and promote the appropriate and trageted tax incentives, not this joke from the current administration.
Comment by Joe Grazzio on 2009-12-16
Great article Nick! I know there are a lot of people here who want to bash you, but they're the typical morons in this country who are hypnotized by Fox and are afraid they might be called a liberal if they support alternative energy. They never seem to complain about the government spending all their money on the oil machine though. But as soon as you call them out, they respond with weak and tired arguments. Kudos to you for speaking the truth. They know it's the truth, but they just can't bring themselves to admit it.
Comment by Ronald Raasch on 2009-12-16
You and Stossell are both wrong. Seniors and working 'stiffs' have different needs. A golf cart isn't the answer for everyone. Time will be the judge. Before you slam Fox News, remember the truth is well hidden by the Network Media and print giants.
Comment by Tony Fortwengler on 2009-12-16
Stossel is one of the few reporters to report on the silliness of government give-a-ways. I love GREEN but quit subsidizing it with $2,500 credits for NEVs or any other EV
Comment by JohnH on 2009-12-16
This article is a zero. Typical no data, lack of logic bashing type dialogue that serves no useful purpose in moving new energy options/public opinion toward fruition. When will the left actually have some valid arguments to push forward, other than the typcial party lines.
Comment by Wayne Millsap on 2009-12-16
Libs will never get it.

If electric golf carts are good for seniors and the invironment, then let the seniors buy them. Why should it be the goverment who supply them?

By the way, I am 71 years old and am more worried about Obama taking $500 billion from Medicare, than receiving a free golf cart. I realize that "let the old guys limp" is part of the President's health care plan.

Obama should forget the golf carts, and let me have a hip replacement.
Comment by JohnH on 2009-12-16
This article is a zero. Typical no data, lack of logic bashing type dialogue that serves no useful purpose in moving new energy options/public opinion toward fruition. When will the left actually have some valid arguments to push forward, other than the typcial party lines.
Comment by Bill Strasburg on 2009-12-16
...or can we be trusted to do it ourselves? We definitely need to show more concern about our environment, but the government doesn't fix things by passing more laws and commandeering more money and power.

"The government exists only to become larger and to take away individual liberties."
-Thomas Jefferson
Comment by Ray Porter on 2009-12-16
Neither your article or the Fox piece presents a comprehensive view so we can decide, but I do know that these seniors living in an affluent community on Social Security, tax advantaged pensions and in a state with no income tax do not need or deserve any federal money to drive the carts they want. Individual decisions and responsibility.
Comment by Ron Davis on 2009-12-16
So what that Stossel gave us his opinion. Now that he's a member of the Fox network must really irratate you. Too bad, get over it! I don't agree with everything you say either.

You lefties need to give us consumers some credit. We're intelligent enough to make up our own minds. Really, we are. We don't always agree with Fox, but we're not always going to agree with you either.

Just because someone has a different opinion doesn't mean he deserves to be trashed.
Comment by Mike Samples on 2009-12-16
I did not see the piece on Fox but if I had to guess I would say that knowing Fox the idea would be that if this is such a wonderful technology (and I believe it has many merits) why then does it need so much government support. Where is the payback for our tax dollars? I always welcome differing views but when it becomes a shrill scream yelling "liar" it makes me wonder about the writer.
Comment by Paul Shuey on 2009-12-16
I love the earth and my children as much as you. I just don't hate as much. You are being used.
Comment by BF on 2009-12-16
Does electric vehicles have a compelling value in a free market? And if doesn't but needs time and incentives then when does it end?

Right now as an investor we are trying to wade through all these financial gyrations to try and find the best value argument.

I didn't find merit in your argument against one reporter from one network.

Comment by BF on 2009-12-16
Does electric vehicles have a compelling value in a free market? And if doesn't but needs time and incentives then when does it end?

Right now as an investor we are trying to wade through all these financial gyrations to try and find the best value argument.

I didn't find merit in your argument against one reporter from one network.

Comment by Bud on 2009-12-16
Economics obviously isn't your long suit, but you might try Bastiat to understand why the Cash for Clunkers "program" leads to an economic net loss, not a gain. The entire premise that money spent to replace artificially premature destruction of useful assets remains one of the most impoverished (and impoverishing) fantasies indulged by "progressives" (loosely defined as people who don't remotely understand economics and regard other people's money as an infinitely renewable resource).

The wonder is that if the present regime is going to wantonly throw money around that virtually no effort has been focussed on restoring the dangerously declining infrastructure (originally paid for by tax dollars) rather than funding superficial and irrelevant pet projects earmarked by the dominant criminal culture hanging out in DC.

John Stoessel doesn't trust government. Neither did most of the Founders, and for the same reasons, so presumably you regard them as nutters also. The alternative explanation is that you are.
Comment by Bud on 2009-12-16
Economics obviously isn't your long suit, but you might try Bastiat to understand why the Cash for Clunkers "program" leads to an economic net loss, not a gain. The entire premise that money spent to replace artificially premature destruction of useful assets remains one of the most impoverished (and impoverishing) fantasies indulged by "progressives" (loosely defined as people who don't remotely understand economics and regard other people's money as an infinitely renewable resource).

The wonder is that if the present regime is going to wantonly throw money around that virtually no effort has been focussed on restoring the dangerously declining infrastructure (originally paid for by tax dollars) rather than funding superficial and irrelevant pet projects earmarked by the dominant criminal culture hanging out in DC.

John Stoessel doesn't trust government. Neither did most of the Founders, and for the same reasons, so presumably you regard them as nutters also. The alternative explanation is that you are.
Comment by Keith Shamblin on 2009-12-16
But, my fellow commenter’s said plenty. What did they say? That you’re an idiot.

Well, I can call you an idiot and just leave it there.

1. Electric vehicles get their power from polluting power plants.

2. The purpose of the piece was simply to show how the government can and will screw up anything and everything they get involved with. (sorry you missed that)

Now I don’t have the time to teach you everything, but I’ll add just two more things to add some reality to this.

The bailouts have only put us more in debt. Period.

1. I’ve been in the automotive industry for 40 years (man, that makes me old) I sell to new and used car dealers and most will tell you they worked the cash for clunkers program just like Stossel’s dealer did with the golf cart, while laughing their butt off AT the government.

2. How much money did the government (that’s you and me) (borrow) and then give to GM and Chrysler? And how long was it before the filed bankruptcy anyway?

PLEASE … lock your TV onto FOX.

And may I suggest you read Glenn Beck’s book Arguing With Idiots. The facts it shows will make you mad, but at least you’ll then be mad at the right people.
Comment by Randy on 2009-12-16
After reviewing the articles and the show I got to go with the Fair and Balanced Stossel.

You just apparently don't get it.

I don't think it is wise at all to borrow money from the Chinese to pay for anyone's NEV.

And I have to agree with the overall conclusion of the show that the greeny agenda does not even begin to consider the overall picture of cost benefits analysis and unintended consequenses.

I should watch Fox more often - thanks for bringing this to my attention.
Comment by Randy on 2009-12-16
After reviewing the articles and the show I got to go with the Fair and Balanced Stossel.

You just apparently don't get it.

I don't think it is wise at all to borrow money from the Chinese to pay for anyone's NEV.

And I have to agree with the overall conclusion of the show that the greeny agenda does not even begin to consider the overall picture of cost benefits analysis and unintended consequenses.

I should watch Fox more often - thanks for bringing this to my attention.
Comment by Bubba Bear on 2009-12-16
I had a parent who lived in the Villages. Believe me there is no need for the Government to grant stimulus and additional demand for golf cars in the unique totally self contained community. There are already 1000's there. As both a one time Petroleum Geophysicist and Green energy business owner and advocate I see absolutely no need for the government to create demand. They have done it for decades in housing and in debt financing. The national security and strategic interest issues should be to dramatically reduce oil imports into America and I would open all Federal offshore and onshore lands to lease auctioning, permitting and drilling to be timed with a $1 a gallon tax on oil that increases by $.25 per year until oil imports no longer exceed 10% of our total oil consumption. The American people would quickly, within a decade, determine the cost effectiveness of golf carts as modes of transportation. I would also develop a covennant with the American people that 50% of tax would go only to deficit reduction and the remaining 50% in Electrical vehicle storage development and funding a national bullit train system. The tax would be rescinded after the objective is meet that we no longer importing any more than 10% our petroleum needs. The problem with Green energy it is almost exclusively for Electrical generation and we use coal and available energy for electrical usage that is in this country and not imported. However if that ever changed I would implement the same type of excise taxation on electrical generation. If you want people to use less penalize them and don't hide under anthropogenic global warming tent which does not exist.
Comment by Frank Yacenda on 2009-12-16
Your juxtaposition of the Stossel and Wired reports is indicative of how the left/global warming/so-called environmental crowd distorts and misrepresents to promote its own interests.

Stossel's issue, and those such as myself who happen to agree with him, is not whether it is good, bad, or indifferent to substitute golf carts (oh, excuse me, NEVs, let's obfuscate with jargon) for cars. It is the use of public dollars to promote them we object to.

Plenty of people in the community where I live get about on golf carts (in fact, one just went by) and no one helped them buy them with my or your tax dollars. No one helped me with public money to buy my car, either. Nor my bicycle, which I use to ride around on using no power source (let's conveniently forget that electric vehicles require polluting and expensive central power-plant-generated electricity to operate).

If people see a benefit in buying a golf cart, or a new car, or a bike, or a broom, or a magic carpet, that is their business. Let them spend their money on it and not mine. And they obviously will do so when they feel so motivated.

And somehow comparing subsidies for greenie stuff to subsidies to the oil industry is equally absurd and offensive and a red herring. I think all such subsidies are offensive and a misuse of public funds and governmental taxing and spending power. It is not mutually exclusive to say one is wrong. Both represent abuses.

Were it not for reporters such as Stossel and some of the other reporters and commentators on Fox we would be wallowing in a sea of pro-Obama/pro-leftist/pro-fiscal irresponsibity propaganda. It is bad enough as it is, but people are clearly voting with their feet and abandoning the biased media on the left by the millions. Meanwhile we must suffer through this fiscal insanity we currently are going through and which will burden us for generations to come.

As someone else said, tax reductions, small business tax credits, and other incentives that put both money and power back in the hands of ordinary people and business is the most effective means both to turn around the economy (the so-called "stimulus" has done nothing to do that and in the next year is going to have a disastrous effect on the economy) and to enable people to make their own choices about how and how much in the direction of "green" they desire to go.

But the people advocating public spending to promote their own views don't want people to be empowered. They want government to control the strings and our lives and to enrich themselves in the process. They have a deep distrust of people's judgment and sense of their own well-being, preferring instead to invest government, the most untrustworthy and abusive of all institutions, to tell us what should we do, how we should live our lives, and even what vehicles we should move our unworthy butts around on.

Dangerous, self-serving craptrap.
Comment by Bruce Donatelli on 2009-12-16
Nick:
You miss the point when you state "that a tax break for buying a vehicle with no emissions, one that is mostly used by seniors, and one that helps create a sense of community while fostering American consumerism isn't a bad idea." Of course it is not, but that is your opionion. As an American taxpaying senior with a graduate degree in economics, I do not want to finance your opinions. I can choose to pay market price after I judge the utility of my purchases. And be more assured that American consumerism is defined by Americans not by ignorant statists who currently run our nanny state.
Comment by Randy A on 2009-12-16
Right on brother. I'm half their age and wish I could have one in my neighborhood.
Comment by William on 2009-12-16
Thank you for pointing out Mr. Stossel's abuse of facts. I agree that it is poor journalism. I do not, however, disagree with him about big government. The government in no way should offer the types of incentives they do. Let the market decide whether an idea has value. Cash for Clunkers was a tremendous waste of tax dollars no matter how you look at it.
Comment by Dr. Bob Greenberg on 2009-12-16
Since the "free" market advocates and the "drill baby drill" contingent have now been heard from, let me say two things:
1) Those NEV's not only save oil, they also save lives. How many times have you seen tragic stories about the lives taken when a very old widow could no longer control the huge car her late husband had bought many years earlier. Since most communities (even in Florida) are still set up for long drives in cars wherever people need to go, and since door-to-door bus service is always one of the first victims of budget cutbacks, the communities designed for NEV's are a godsend.
2) It happened too long ago for most people to know about it, but what turned Stossel into an angry little pencil-neck was the humiliation dealt to him on national tv by Hulk Hogan, who boxed Stossel's ear after a series of insulting questions. That open-handed blow took out Stossel's eardrum. Whether it also caused brain damage is a question I will leave up to your readers.
Comment by Chuck Skeldon on 2009-12-16
The cash for clunkers probably resulted in energy and resources unecessarily used to build new cars when the old ones would have continued to serve people. They could have gone to some poor people when the original owners bought their cars with normal trade-ins. The boost to the car companies was mostly shifted from the previous and next months, which had poor sales. Some people got themselves into debt that will cause them trouble.
The best things are to open up more drilling, which will boost the whole economy. Also good broad tax cuts, on working, saving, investing, and growing businesses.
Comment by Al on 2009-12-16
I disagree with your assessment of Mr. Stossel’s presentation. I found very informative and reviewing the tax laws the tax rebates about electric golf carts to be factual. I believe that was the point driven home. Not that he is against good “green programs”. But this is not one of them, it has little positive return for the majority. If you are a golfer I would be better able to understand your concern.
Comment by Joe A on 2009-12-16
I watched the Stossel program start to finish. First, it was focused on free golf carts as you suggest.

Second, the cash for clunkers program was patently unfair as is the free golf cart. Both of these redistributes money directly.

You can argue the stimulus point, but neither of the above programs stimulated anything other than putting money in the pockets of 1 golf cart distributor and selling a few new cars. I really love the fact that my tax dollars go directly to pay for my neighbors new Hyundai (when I could not take advantage of the program at all).

The is pure government waste. If you want to stimulate the economy and actually produce jobs, do what has always been done. Reduce or eliminate capital gains on businesses who actually hire employees.

Frankly, the free golf cart idea is great, but doesn't come close to addressing the real issues.
Comment by ima_nemisis on 2009-12-16
Nick,

IMO, Stossel is not off-base at all. There need never be a tax-credit (or even deductions) for a worthhwile product; maybe for your tax dollars that is OK, not mine. If it's that good, it'll pay its' own way, much as you (and I) are paid. Get over it: There are NO free lunches!

ima_nemisis
Comment by Chuck Skeldon on 2009-12-16
The cash for clunkers probably resulted in energy and resources unecessarily used to build new cars when the old ones would have continued to serve people. They could have gone to some poor people when the original owners bought their cars with normal trade-ins. The boost to the car companies was mostly shifted from the previous and next months, which had poor sales. Some people got themselves into debt that will cause them trouble.
The best things are to open up more drilling, which will boost the whole economy. Also good broad tax cuts, on working, saving, investing, and growing businesses.
Comment by Peter King on 2009-12-16
Very well said.
Fox news are a bunch of conservative idiots who just cannot let go of the past. They do alot of damage because people believe their "news". If only the business community could see there is a very bright future for America if they can ditch this obsession with Oil. Electric cars are faster than your big V8 by a considerable margin - why dont Fox report that?
Comment by Kurt Heimbrock on 2009-12-16
Where do you think power to charge those Free Golf Carts comes from, the plug on the wall? The current administration is waging war on the power companies on one hand, and then pushing incentives for their use on the other. (Chevy Volt, Golf Carts). It's amazing how you Greenies are so scared of Fox News.
Comment by danny brooker on 2009-12-16
Stossel was pretty much right on everything. Greenies get carried away with the rightousness of sustainabile energy sources of which most is half baked ideas and truths. Solar power fot example costs much more than than regular electricity. Nuclear power is the real answer though.The fact that your entire recommendation service is based on Greeen stuff may be the reason for your position.
Comment by jack on 2009-12-16
Why should taxpayers pay for somebody's nev.If you want to by one spend your own money. Anyone dumb enough to defend these tax credit for buying (houses, cars, etc.) needs a basic course in common sense. As an aside, how many of these buyers are going to take a deduction on their 2009 returns for the sales tax paid on the full price of the vehicle
Comment by Richard Stephenson on 2009-12-16
Where is your article pointing out all the lies of the greens supporting man made global warming and their lying apostle Gore. I'll take John Stossel and his views any day over those of Al Gore and his Cap & Trade loonies.
Comment by Richard A Zander on 2009-12-16
There may be no emissions from the electric carts, but the power had to come from some place. There is an impact from generating that power, be it wind, solar, geothermal, coal, oil or gas. Green energy sounds great, but the environmental impact still occurs. And why should I be paying for a golf cart for someone that can well afford to buy it themselves. The public dole whether you call it a rebate or a tax credit will soon be the downfall of our country.
Comment by Mehmet Turkel on 2009-12-16
Thank you Nick for your excelent rebutal of J.S' assinine reporting on electric vehicles-
I used to like the guy when he was at 20-20. I sure don't know how he became such an assh..-right winger along with other set of characters at Fox.
In few years, when I am ready for Villages, I look forward to getting one myself.
Keep up the good work.
Comment by Ken cox on 2009-12-16
While electric vehicles sound like a good idea, where is the extra "juice" to come from? App. half is currently produced by burning coal. Lack of emissions from one source is countered by increased emissions from the other.

By the way, Stossel is a Libertarian, which means he wants very minimal gov't. and maximum personal freedom. Both those seem like great things to me!
Comment by MB on 2009-12-16
The fact is a vast majority of the clunkers probably were perfectly good cars for the aftermarket. My F150 is a LEV. (low emission vehicle) The cars today are spewing 95% less emissions than those of 20 years ago. 20 years down the road we will be bailing out the electric car companies because they relied too much on government subsidies and mandates to stay in business. Get ready it will come.
Comment by chris on 2009-12-16
Roosevelt's policies extended and worsened the Great Depression. It is because we knew that that many of us also knew that Obama's -- or any Democrat's -- economic policies would be disasterous (as are Obama's astounding ignorance regarding military and diplomatic matters). Only when WWII forced the government to start putting money in the hands of private citizens who owned manufacturing operations and who knew how to get things done did the economy finally turn around. Solution: try half the Democrats for treason and hang them, then send the rest to retirement in government-subsidized housing. Then cut all taxes across the board and strip government spending to the bone. Only then will you see REAL progress in all areas, including environmentally sound technologies.
Comment by chris on 2009-12-16
Roosevelt's policies extended and worsened the Great Depression. It is because we knew that that many of us also knew that Obama's -- or any Democrat's -- economic policies would be disasterous (as are Obama's astounding ignorance regarding military and diplomatic matters). Only when WWII forced the government to start putting money in the hands of private citizens who owned manufacturing operations and who knew how to get things done did the economy finally turn around. Solution: try half the Democrats for treason and hang them, then send the rest to retirement in government-subsidized housing. Then cut all taxes across the board and strip government spending to the bone. Only then will you see REAL progress in all areas, including environmentally sound technologies.
Comment by Haewood on 2009-12-16
Are you kidding? I guess a motorcross bike and a harley aren't both motorcycles either. And to say that the 'golf carts' aren't free because you have to fill out some paperwork for a secondary transaction is like saying the Big Mac wasn't free because you had to clip the coupon. I think we all understand there are opportunities in the green sector, but is there really a need to force our actions by taking money from one to give to another?
Comment by Haewood on 2009-12-16
Are you kidding? I guess a motorcross bike and a harley aren't both motorcycles either. And to say that the 'golf carts' aren't free because you have to fill out some paperwork for a secondary transaction is like saying the Big Mac wasn't free because you had to clip the coupon. I think we all understand there are opportunities in the green sector, but is there really a need to force our actions by taking money from one to give to another?
Comment by MB on 2009-12-16
This is for the good Dr. Bob Greenburg. It wasn't Hulk Hogan who ear bashed John Stossel. But let me ask you this. If John Stossel asked Al Gore if his information was inaccurate, would Gore have the right to open hand cuff him upside the head? You must think wrestling is real too.
Comment by Brad Beago on 2009-12-16
Why should my money subsidize wealthy senior citizens? Green investments need to stand on their own. Your logic is the same idiot logic that suggest you can create a net benefit to society by distroying hundreds of thousands of conventional jobs while "creating" tens of thousands green jobs. It wishful thinking masked as economic policy. Also it is complete BS that the govt "gave" billions to subsidize oil companies in the Gulf of Mexico.
Comment by ron paint on 2009-12-16
too bad you can,t get past your bias and look at some real facts. You are blinded by all that Al Gore money that he is making and forcing us to accept thru deceit.
Comment by Peter Locke on 2009-12-16
I thought Stossele was 'fair and balanced' when he was on the other channel. I hope your assessment of him after his move to Fox is incorrect, but I'll be a little more suspicious of his 'facts.'
Comment by David Leonard on 2009-12-16
The average 'Cash for Clunkers' trade-in was a pickup truck for a marginally more fuel efficient new one. The 'old' one could have made a good ride for someone unable to afford more. The average price increase of used vehicles was made greater for others, and new truck prices escalated $1000. The pick up in the auto business was temporary and created few if any lasting jobs.

If the well-off retirees are already using NEVs then why subsidize them? Like Clunkers,to buy votes? Oh, no........not possible nowadays when Washington is so dedicated to the American people.
Comment by Kathy Boone on 2009-12-16
I can't understand all the hype for these vehicles. I live on a farm with lots of pollen and dirt. I LIKE air conditioned vehicles! Also, Pres. Obama has stated that with his Cap and Trade system, "electricity will necessarily skyrocket". What good will these golf carts be then. Also, we have to travel over 100 miles to a city that has specialist dr.s for Dr. appts. Or to a Sam's club or entertainment. They are not efficent or spacious enough to make them a serious investment.
However, I would love a vehicle that could do the things we need and be inexpensive to operate, and didn't cost so much to buy, that you will never recoup your investment.
I find you are too politically extreme to be objective. Not everything "green" is a winner. Not everything of comfort is evil.

I'm glad we have Fox News, so at least someone is setting the record straight.
Comment by Prof Harry Bergsteiner on 2009-12-17
One has to feel sorry for the US when guys like John Stossel get so much air time.
Has he ever wondered why it is that Germany is the world's biggest export nation - in absolute terms - and not the US. Why Siemens achieved a turnover of €19 billion with environmental technologies, which makes it the largest “green infrastructure” supplier in the world.
Comment by Tom Thole on 2009-12-17
The integrity of your article is hurt by the name calling (e.g. Nerd). The income level of those living in the retirement communities is generally higher than the average American which is what allows them to retire. The money for the golf cart tax credit would have been much better spent for our homeless in this country and to feed the starving and malnourished children of our inner cities. Why give it to those fat cats to buy a golf cart?
Comment by G R Langley on 2009-12-17
Jeff, shame on you. I'm 73 and I have an elec. cart in my garage and I bought it myself. why should we pay for carts for the fat cats in Florida with everyone else's tax money taken from us by the fat cats in Washington. I own green stocks because they make sense and a profit- you made no sense attacking Stossel who was exposing this crap. Truth be known,friends of Barry probably own the cart company.
Comment by b on 2009-12-17
siding with john on this one - not a fan of subsidies of any kind - the green industry would grow on its own at its own speed - now it is 'juiced' - and most of your plays are based on the subsidies - you are reallying grabbing what gov't takes from others - not healthy
Comment by Eva Quezada on 2009-12-17
You complain about Fox, but what about the other Main Stream Media (MSM)? ABC, CBS, & NBC that have failed to investigate and report the whole truth about Obama, about climategate where thousands of qualified scientists disagree with Al Gore's "Inconvenient Truth," about the fake jobs that were supposedly created with the Stimulus money? (Where's that money now?)

The MSM's pro-OBAMA, pro-leftist propaganda is sickening. Don't you understand our freedoms are at stake when the government has too much power? Green is good, but individual freedom based on the Constitution is better. Get the government's hand our of our pockets and you'll see a far more prosperous nation.
Comment by Hank Mansell on 2009-12-17
This articles comes the closest to a positive and accurate and wholistic look at "electric vehicles" called golf carts. It reveals how Stossel has distorted and diverted the real issue to his own agenda of negative news. Being prejudiced against something for the wrong reasons is not big news.
Comment by Phil Medway on 2009-12-17
If Florida retirees want to buy golf carts that's fine by me - but not with my tax dollars. This is just redistribution of wealth.

Same with the cash for clunkers - people who can afford to buy new cars don't need subsidies. Plus destroying the trade-ins was the antithesis of green. They should have been given to people who needed a car but couldn't afford one.
Comment by Roy Skibbe on 2009-12-17
If you're intent upon entering the polical arena why tip toe into the
fray with a target like Stossel.
Tagging the Bush admistration with the MMS scandal is disingenuous.
I'm no fan of the Bush years. Ethics has no party affiliation.The
MMS scandal is sympotatic of the
state of country today.
Comment by harvey on 2009-12-17
Fox News. We distort. You comply.
Comment by Randy Chambers on 2009-12-17
I never saw such flowery language used to describe how wonderful NEV's are. You would think they were sent from the angels. Instead money is being stolen from me to give some bloke a break on an electric vehicle so he can live his retirement dream while I wonder if I'll ever be able to retire at all. If they think the NEVs are so great and they want to be soooo green, why don't they buy the things with their own money.
Stossel points out how crazy it is to take from one person and redistribute it to another. It makes no since and is simply a form of slavery, my labor for your enjoyment. Welcome to the USSA, United Socialist States of America.
Comment by boyd knight on 2009-12-18
Dont know about John Stossel but your blanket comment about the latest "fear monger" from fox news leads me to believe you have a decided slant left. Obama and the democrats make sure nothing positive is reported about anything they disagree with.
Comment by Bruce Chyka on 2009-12-18
So I guess ABC is so fair and balanced that John had to leave for a biased Fox. Why does every one bash FOX? Is it because no one wants to hear progressive reporting from another point of view? Hey I have an idea, lets trade cars for horses and go back to living in caves. Now that's progressive!
Comment by Jim Putman on 2009-12-18
Nick, You missed the point. The issue is government spending money it doesn't have to buy things it doesn't need to impress people it doesn't like. They are bankrupting our once-great country, and the stuff they're spending our grandchildren's money on is of dubious value.
Comment by David Cheesman on 2009-12-18
Did not see the story, but how does your article help us make money?

The new technology will win and make our lives better when it can stand on its own without a government subsidity. I can't believe one would want to trust Congress to pick the best industries to subsidize. They will usually pick and choose based on some factor that benefits their home district or state or a deal they make with another member of Congress. In that regard they actually might not choose to subsidize the really great new idea. That just sets back progress.
So my advice: End all government subsidies; let the market place of new ideas work and win and stick to informing us about how we can make money with the new technologies that can supplant the existing without needing a subsidy.
Comment by D Lindstrom on 2009-12-18
Nick: Your liberal spin that shredded Stossel is sickening, and the facts surrounding electric anything is a joke. As a trained environmentalist I know that no form of energy is truly "clean". All of it, neither created nor destroyed (arguably with the exception of nuclear), is derived from the sun. Our coal and nuclear power plants are where these "green" electric vehicles get there power. Real smoke and mirrors. The problem is that it is politicized. You are as bad as Stossel, from the other side.
Comment by Meyer on 2009-12-18
I never understand when people point out wrong doings to justify other wrong doings. The government is not there to aid industry. The government also is not there to take money from one group of people and give it to another. We are a capitalist country some will survive and others will not. We should only give aid to the handicap or mentally challenged. If you want to live in a socialist paradise move to another country.
Comment by Bill Hodge on 2009-12-19
I can't believe a fellow Hodge would condem a reporter for exposing retires in Florida spending my money for a cart to truck around from ballgames to shopping. I thought they went to play ball to get exercise. Why not walk and forget the ball game? If they can afford to live in such a place, surely the can go together and buy a cart. Why should I be required to help? I am 73 years old living in a trailer and I don't expect anyone to buy me a cart.
Comment by Al Badger on 2009-12-20
I love the way you Greenies distort the facts! "a tax break for buying a vehicle with no emissions"
How do the old folks charge the batteries.... Florida Power and Light? And where does FPL electricity come from ... Green coal? And where does the aluminum that goes into building their cart come from? Oh more green electricity? And wouldn't the majority of old folks (Like Me) be better off walking anyhow? It is time this Country learned you don't get energy without some disruption to the enviornment!
Comment by Carter on 2009-12-21
So I plug in one of these NEV, NeighborHood Electric Vehicles. The powerplant burns a little more coal, creating more carbon.

In addition to the credit for purchasing, and redistributing wealth what did I gain.

Well not much. The money could have been spent on research at small businesses. More PV panels for small businesses, or wind turbines for communities or anything that would have helped small business flourish.

But now we have lost the money. Its forever gone. We squandered our legacy as a nation. That's the tragedy that will haunt my children and their children for 100 years.
Comment by Srinivas N on 2009-12-23
I can't believe the half-truths and nonsense being spewed up on this comments page. Its sad really that people just spout off without getting their facts right. Here's some howlers:

- NO, "ClimateGate" did NOT have "thousands of scientists disagree with Al Gore" - in fact it changed nothing about scientific opinion on human global warming.
- NO, Communism is not when you have a govt sponsored health option
- NO the purpose of Cash For Clunkers was not to create jobs but to raise average fleet mileage which it has done.
- NO, electricity does NOT have to come from a coal fired plant. France gets 80% of it from nuclear, and Germany 60% from renewable

OK, I give up. There's just too much idiocy here to be dealt with. One thing is clear to me: Its sad that people are willing to believe any piece of drivel that they read in the blogosphere or on FOX news. Clearly propaganda machines like FOX are working.
Comment by JABCOINC on 2010-01-25
One neighbor has a tiny smart car, he also walks the family's tiny dog, he looks like he's embarked on a "walk of shame", they also seem to have a few tiny kids. Who cares? Who cares? My point really is, well, who cares? I just wouldn't drive one of these toys because a less tiny car might crush it! Please chill rowdy fella's, beacause who cares.
Comment by steve marshall on 2010-01-28
You say he lied then provide no proof that he was wrong about the golf cart purchase. He also quotes a backup source: the WSJ.

My read of the tax law is that he was right.

Additionally, the Minerals Management Service scandal was isolated to 17 employees in one office in Colorado. These people were long-time bureaucrats not appointees of the Bush administration. This just proves the ineptness and corruption of the federal bureaucracy.

While the actions of these morons are reprehensible, you fail to mention that the federal government also receives billions in royalties from those same billions in leases. This generates revenue to the federal treasury unlike the budget busting drain that the tax credits afforded to alternative energy sources creates.

Let the free market decide.

For your sake, let's hope your investment advice is better than this hit piece.